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#7849169 May 19, 2013 at 08:45 AM
Lieutenant
955 Posts
The Stone Guard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8thGDmLA43g - 23 minutes

This will be the tough one (imo). This video explains everyone's role, but it emphasizes the tanks. This is because the onus of this fight is on the tanks. If 'Dyna and I can get the boss swaps figured out, that will make the entire fight work better. While it would be nice to tank these guys a couple times in an lfr to figure it out, we both have no interest in tanking an lfr with impatient and/or rude people. So, we have no choice to walk in and figure it out on our own. The length of the vid is due to the explanation of how the tanks should be taunting the Bosses.
What to take away from this: In lfr, the various random boss abilities are mostly ignored. In Norm, they need to be dealt with smartly.

Feng the Accursed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=mHiL60q3Dek - 20 minutes

Phase 1: Tanks need to use the abilities of the gems to prevent damage to the rest of the group. Tanks need to taunt every 3 stacks of debuff.
Phase 2: Wildfire sparks need to be dropped to the sides of the Boss. Not behind the raid group, and certainly NOT in the raid. Tank with Nullification uses it on second Draw Flame. Draw Flame stacks on Boss, increasing his damage. This stack will continue into the next phase. Stack decreases with every melee swing the Boss makes.
Phase 3: Arcane Resonance and Arcane Velocity need to be managed carefully. Raid needs to be in a semi-circle around boss. AR can cause a lot of damage if you stand next to someone who has it. For Velocity, raid stacks on tanks. When it's done, raid spreads back out asap.
What to take away from this: More or less the same fight as in lfr, but special boss abilities now can cause raidwide problems. Pay attention to what's happening.

Gara'jal the Spiritbinder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_sXbl_o26M - 10 minutes

Again, more or less the same as lfr. There are some things to keep in mind, though. Voodoo Doll links a tank and 2 random players together. This means that any damage taken by any one of those players is mirrored and amplified to the other 2 players. Spike damage for this is common and needs to be watched for. Every now and then, one of the tanks will be ported to the shadow realm. While there, they need to kill a Severer of Souls within 30 seconds or they die. While in there, they can kill other mobs, but the Severer is priority. This is separate from the Spirit Totem ability. It should be noted (and is mentioned in the vid), that due to the mechanics of the fight and the mechanics of DK tanks, Jinky may be a liability for this fight. Gizmoto may be needed here.
The Spirit Totem and the Shadow Realm: Boss drops a Totem. 3 players need to bumrush it and kill it. This is different from lfr where you just click it. The 3 players need to consist of a healer and 2 dps. Upon entering SR, all health is dropped. The trick here is that healer should heal self first to gain a buff that regens mana. Then heal dps. Keep heals going until you are ported out. If everyone in that group is healed fully, they keep that buff for 30 seconds. This increases the damage of the dps in that group. While in SR, you have the same objectives as when the tank goes in by themselves. Focus on Severer and take out anything else handy.

This covers the first 3 Bosses of MSV 10 Normal. I'd like to focus on these 3 for now, and we'll continue further on when we're comfortable with these fights.

~ Brix
Make a sincere complement on a really nice mustache, and all of a sudden, she's not your friend anymore. - Marty Feldman.
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#7849343 May 19, 2013 at 09:44 AM
Commanding O...
2103 Posts
While it would be nice to tank these guys a couple times in an lfr to figure it out, we both have no interest in tanking an lfr with impatient and/or rude people.


If you'd like my take on it...? Why not go into a couple of LFR's where you got strong healers and a ton of mad DPS at your back and practice a couple of times? I mean its only LFR, and the first one at that. Whats the worst that could happen? A bunch of people you'll never meet again vote-kick you?

Whats most likely to happen...? You'll be focused by Healers trying to be #1 on the Healing meters, and the DPS will be going full-throttle on whatever target is in front of them because they are trying to be #1 on the damage meters. And so regardless of how well or how badly you handle the tank swaps...the mobs are gonna die anyway.

Then if you dont feel like tanking the rest of the fights for practice (which might be a good idea)...fake a DC and try again in half an hour. Use LFR for what it is...a nerfed practice ground.

- Forbs
"For Gnomeregan!"
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#7849817 May 19, 2013 at 11:37 AM
980 Posts
Well to throw my two cogs worth out there; I would say to wait a week or two. In order to take advantage of the new gearing deal in 5.3- choosing which spec you want to drop for you.

Anyways if I am able to go I'll be coming on Light. His healing spec ilvl is 479 so hopefully I can get back and run something to push him over the 480 mark. Right now I really need some better shoulders and a trinket. (FYI he's currently set to Shadow on the armory; so that's a bit lower.) As for healing he is holy but I can pick up Disc if needed might help if we have 3 healers that way I can do some atonement healing as well:
"What is this world twisted?" ~LVG
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#7853218 May 20, 2013 at 06:47 AM · Edited 9 years ago
85 Posts
Well if we do this I think I'd like to give it a shot!

Lyeli is at your disposal.
Kimmike- Mage. Proffesional Historian and researcher of the use of Arcane Magics.

Lyeli- Priest. Proffesional Historian and Titans Expert.

Blapie- Warlock. Proffesion Historian and Fel Researcher.
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#7854054 May 20, 2013 at 09:43 AM
63 Posts
I would be very interested in being part of this Guild adventure :)
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#7854129 May 20, 2013 at 10:00 AM
Commanding O...
2103 Posts
Ok so thats two tanks and a healer and at least one RDPS (me) we can count on so far. Four down six to go. We should try to get commitments from at least one other healer and (if possible) a DPS with a Healer off-spec.

Brighty is in nearly full PvP gear (451), and learning how to Smite-Heal at the moment. But I'm not going to volunteer her unless we're out of other options. I'm not yet comfortable with healing Heroics yet, so current content raids are right out.

Forbs on the other hand is up to 495 (Ive been slacking on LFR lately) and she can put a hurt on some things when she's not running for her life, so thats where I can be most useful.

Are we properly stocked with Healing/Mana Potions, Flasks, Feasts or Food, Elixirs, and Drums? We'll need to go in loaded for bear with every advantage we can muster. I'd also recommend we have a Monk in the group if we can swing it for the buff.

- Forbs
"For Gnomeregan!"
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#7854166 May 20, 2013 at 10:11 AM · Edited 9 years ago
980 Posts
Edit: I should be good for this Saturday. Not 100% positive. My comp is supposed to be ready at some point on Thursday. Beyond that there is about a 95% chance that if I can get everything reinstalled that I will be there.

The weekend following (June 1st) I will likely be w/out Internet so I won't be on for that attempt.
"What is this world twisted?" ~LVG
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#7854342 May 20, 2013 at 10:42 AM
211 Posts
I can heal on Pip or do ranged on Poly, depending on what is needed.
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#7854612 May 20, 2013 at 11:30 AM
Ensign
426 Posts
I should be available this Saturday, and I can do ranged or melee dps.
"You win again gravity!" -Futurama
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#7884241 May 26, 2013 at 07:41 AM
Lieutenant
955 Posts
So....in spite of the fact that we downed nothing last night (except some trash), it is my opinion that progress was made. At least twice we got them down to 50%. I think that once 'Dyna and I get the swapping fine-tuned we will be successful.

I said this in /raid last night, and it bears repeating. Previously, we've been in content that we outlevel and we've (mostly) roflstomped it. Now we're in current content. The difficulty has now ramped up considerably. We can't just walk in and overpower things. We have to out-think them as well. As you've heard Glitter and Forbs saying in vent: This fight is a raid-killer. This fight is our 'Raid Check'. It is designed to see if we have what it takes to be in there.

I have no complaints about the dps or the Healing (which was great, btw). Right now, it's simply a case of 'Dyna and I getting our swapping better organized.

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

~ Brix
Make a sincere complement on a really nice mustache, and all of a sudden, she's not your friend anymore. - Marty Feldman.
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#7884389 May 26, 2013 at 08:14 AM
980 Posts
#7884241 Brixee wrote:

So....in spite of the fact that we downed nothing last night (except some trash), it is my opinion that progress was made. At least twice we got them down to 50%. I think that once 'Dyna and I get the swapping fine-tuned we will be successful.

I said this in /raid last night, and it bears repeating. Previously, we've been in content that we outlevel and we've (mostly) roflstomped it. Now we're in current content. The difficulty has now ramped up considerably. We can't just walk in and overpower things. We have to out-think them as well. As you've heard Glitter and Forbs saying in vent: This fight is a raid-killer. This fight is our 'Raid Check'. It is designed to see if we have what it takes to be in there.

I have no complaints about the dps or the Healing (which was great, btw). Right now, it's simply a case of 'Dyna and I getting our swapping better organized.

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

~ Brix




I agree that it was a very good first attempt; and that with a little more practice we should be able to defeat them. As I said last night that was my first time really trying to heal disc w/out doing attonment heals.

As for gear I would strongly recommend that people keep up w/ LFR, world bosses the heroic scenario 1st time quest/the daily or at least at the bare minimum get some of the gear from the battle of the barrens stuff to fill out any gaps. Also don't forget it's only 500 VPs to upgrade an item 8 points. Since even tho it is current we have the luxury of getting some better gear from other avenues. Which will in turn help out a bit on this fight, after Dyna/Jinky get the tank swaps polished, and in the future ones.

One final thing- as I mentioned last night I will be w/out wireless this weekend. I am house sitting for some friends this weekend in addition to 3 weeks in June/July.
"What is this world twisted?" ~LVG
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#7884688 May 26, 2013 at 09:22 AM · Edited 9 years ago
Lieutenant
1523 Posts
#7884241 Brixee wrote:

So....in spite of the fact that we downed nothing last night (except some trash), it is my opinion that progress was made. At least twice we got them down to 50%. I think that once 'Dyna and I get the swapping fine-tuned we will be successful.

I said this in /raid last night, and it bears repeating. Previously, we've been in content that we outlevel and we've (mostly) roflstomped it. Now we're in current content. The difficulty has now ramped up considerably. We can't just walk in and overpower things. We have to out-think them as well. As you've heard Glitter and Forbs saying in vent: This fight is a raid-killer. This fight is our 'Raid Check'. It is designed to see if we have what it takes to be in there.

I have no complaints about the dps or the Healing (which was great, btw). Right now, it's simply a case of 'Dyna and I getting our swapping better organized.

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

~ Brix



That was why I was frustrated and feeling I was letting folks down. The fault for the wipes was mine.

In the videos and in the Tankspot write up, the mechanic seems easy.

I keep the petrifying guardian and one other dog. When the energy gets to fifty, Jinx taunts that dog.

The high energy guardian overloads, resetting their energy to zero and clearing the petrification debuff, then I taunt it back and Jinx taunts the non-petrifying guardian to her. Rinse and repeat.

Yet I struggled to do this. A lot. *ashamed*

Trying to keep track of the energy "bars" while keeping on eye on the raid for threat and watching out for the mines is difficult for me. I'm overwhelmed. It doesn't help the dogs all look alike to me.

I think two things will help.

The first is we mark the dogs. Blue square for cobalt, green triangle for jade, etc... that way it's absolutely clear which dog is which.

The second is we have a designated "swap caller." This person will help Jinx and I by monitoring the energy bars. When it gets at 40, they will it call it out in vent so Jinx and I can get set for the swap in case I missed it in all the chaos.
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#7885039 May 26, 2013 at 10:38 AM
980 Posts
#7884688 Tridyna Quickcipher wrote:



That was why I was frustrated and feeling I was letting folks down. The fault for the wipes was mine.

In the videos and in the Tankspot write up, the mechanic seems easy.

I keep the petrifying guardian and one other dog. When the energy gets to fifty, Jinx taunts that dog.

The high energy guardian overloads, resetting their energy to zero and clearing the petrification debuff, then I taunt it back and Jinx taunts the non-petrifying guardian to her. Rinse and repeat.

Yet I struggled to do this. A lot. *ashamed*

Trying to keep track of the energy "bars" while keeping on eye on the raid for threat and watching out for the mines is difficult for me. I'm overwhelmed. It doesn't help the dogs all look alike to me.

I think two things will help.

The first is we mark the dogs. Blue square for cobalt, green triangle for jade, etc... that way it's absolutely clear which dog is which.

The second is we have a designated "swap caller." This person will help Jinx and I by monitoring the energy bars. When it gets at 40, they will it call it out in vent so Jinx and I can get set for the swap in case I missed it in all the chaos.




1st Dyna I don't think you let anyone down.

2nd I think I see what the issue-ish was- miscommunication. Namely from what I read the tanks taunt the petrifying one over to the solo tanked one until it detonates and petrification is put on another since it can't be recast on the same one twice then its the rinse and repeat. (I ended up reading the tanks guide while looking for a healer one fyi. Which was the reason I said after one wipe we needed to have you taunt off sooner to which Forbs shot me down.)

I agree there should be someone shouting out in vent and I know Gloom was *trying* to do it at various points. But I think he got a bit frustrated at not being heard and stopped.

As I said it seems to be just a simple case of mis/under communication. Which if that's the only issue on our first attempt into current content is actually is very encouraging.

Again Dyna you didn't let anyone down. Honestly tanking is hard and not everyone's thing so you did very good job! Just keep up the good work snd maybe just polish a few things and you'll be among some of the best tanks out there!
"What is this world twisted?" ~LVG
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#7885176 May 26, 2013 at 11:11 AM
1098 Posts
It takes practice to get decent at these things, especially the closer you get to current. I've raided for every part of the game except for BC, and in struggling in ToT. The raids this expac are not easy.

A couple general suggestions, for those that read past the first paragraph there. ;) Get DBM if you don't have it, go to its options, and tell it, per boss, what you want it to tell you. Then go by and move around each bar and warning to spots you know you'll be able to see easily, but won't get in the way. It's great to use someone as a caller, my old group required it, but keep in mind that vent does have a delay.

For your specific problems, Dyna in case you haven't thought of this, make a macro and keybind it to something easy to taunt each specific dog, remember there's three. If you don't have a keybindings mod, just stick it on a bar and go into the keybindings to find that spot.

One example:
/target dogneedingtauntname1
/cast tauntabilityname
/targetlasttarget

Or you could do
/cast [mod,@mouseover][] taunt
And just mouse over what you want to taunt.

If the guild doesn't have a wol (world of logs) account, I would highly suggest you get one. It's free, as long as you have a website, and allows you to track what happens in the raid. /combatlog to toggle on/off, go to the website afterwards, download the little upload client, and throw it on. It's very sophisticated, and if you're good at numbers, you can do a lot with it. In general, it helps track your performance to see just what you may have weaknesses in, or to figure out what kept killing the raid at a specific event.
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#7885246 May 26, 2013 at 11:27 AM
15 Posts
Just a suggestion with regard to Stone Guards (because, yes, it can be difficult to get the swap timing down):
http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/stoneguardtauntcues

I've not used the above link myself, I used the DBM indicator on Stone Guards for timing the swaps - however, the addon looked a trifle better (visual wise) than the smallish one that DBM provides.


You guys got it to 50% - you should be, imo, proud of that right there as this was your FIRST serious attempt at a current raid. Use LFR's feature that allows you roll on gear that you didn't queue yourself up for (awesome thing, this). If LFR seems too daunting, grab a couple of guildmates who maybe want to hunt down Zandalari Warbringers (they drop nifty "stolen faction cards" for peeps like August Celesttials, Golden Lotus, Klaxxi, etc) and see if you can't boost your rep with one of them (Shieldwall still has a few nifty items - granted they're not current current but an upgrade is an upgrade).
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#7885358 May 26, 2013 at 11:54 AM
Commanding O...
2103 Posts
I agree this fight requires close communication between the tanks on the swaps. Vent should be kept clear so they can coordinate this important task!

DPS chatter on vent should be minimal during this fight. As DPS' main priorities are burning down the correct Target(s), avoiding unnecessary raid damage, and keeping the clear floor of mines and breaking chains when necessary. And while those are not trivial tasks, they are fairly straight forward and shouldnt require a great deal of communication.

We had several poor swaps last night (I'm not criticizing anyone here, I realize this fight is a major headache for Tanks, this is simply an issue of timing and coordination) where we had three dogs on one tank for a while (bad because all three dogs gain energy quickly, almost guaranteeing a rapid succession of Overloads we wont be able to heal through), -OR- we had one dog on each tank and the other dog chewing a clothie's face off. I think there are a few lessons we can take away from this...

1. Our two tanks need to sit down and practice (either live in LFR, or hypothetically on paper/ in vent) their strategy for the swaps until they both know instinctively which tank owns which dog at any given moment and properly "steal" them from each other via Taunts.

2. We are over Taunting because of ^THIS^ confusion over where each dog should be, leading to Taunts being on cooldown, and failure to maintain Threat lead on the DPS. If I understand correctly, ONLY the solo tank should be taunting, with the goal of spacing out the Overloads evenly so we can heal through them.

3. Whichever tank has two dogs needs to remember to switch to their multi-target rotation, so as to maintain a Threat lead on both targets -without- using their Taunt, because they will need that Taunt off cooldown for the next swap.

4. DPS needs to be running a Threat addon and PAY ATTENTION to it! If you pull a dog off the tank its probably YOUR fault. Pop your Threat Reduction cooldown, switch targets, run back to the tank, do whatever you have to do, but drop that pooch off at the Pound and leave him there! If you force the tank to use a Taunt to pull the dog off you, we're probably going to wipe.

And again, please remember that raiding is intended to be DIFFICULT. Blizzard designers lie awake at night trying to think up puzzles like this to challenge us. Thats where the fun is, figuring out and executing the correct answer to the puzzle. If we solve this puzzle we get to advance to the next one. =)

Remember also that as far as I know, WE are the leading all-Gnome raiding guild in the WORLD. But in the year since we dinged lvl 25 other lvl 25 Gnome guilds have sprung up and are now following in our footsteps. That begs the question...how much do you value that leadership, and how hard are you willing to work to maintain it?

- Forbs
"For Gnomeregan!"

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#7885553 May 26, 2013 at 12:41 PM
Lieutenant
955 Posts
I poked around on YouTube and found this very simple vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIyCkDkjwKc

So simple it doesn't even have sound. BUT...it clarifies how this works.

Don't feel bad about it 'Dyna. We both made our fair share of mistooks. One thing I think we can both agree on is how awkward it is to see the other tank. I think moving our positions somewhat will ease that. Instead of straight across the room, perhaps on a diagonal? I had my camera zoomed all the way out, and at a 30 degree angle. Also, instead of mousing over the mobs, I had a column on the right side of my screen (either from Bliz's UI or one of my add-ons), so I could just click on the necessary one there and taunt it.

~ Brix
Make a sincere complement on a really nice mustache, and all of a sudden, she's not your friend anymore. - Marty Feldman.
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#7886373 May 26, 2013 at 04:21 PM
12 Posts
Brixee, Dyna, I have a bit of experience with the bosses in MV, if you want some tips and pointers, I would be gladly offering my knowledge to you. I am not much of a a writer, so best would be to meet in vent or mumble
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#7886593 May 26, 2013 at 05:27 PM · Edited 9 years ago
Commanding O...
2103 Posts
Ok after watching the vids several more times, I think I understand what needs to happen with the tank swaps. After the first pull its all down to the Solo Tank to make the decision on which dog to pull and when. That decision will be based on our Primary Objective which is...

We only want the >Petrifying dog< to Overload because it will deal 90% less damage to the raid. The way we accomplish this is to always have the Petrifying dog grouped with the >Lowest Energy dog< of the remaining two.

To help reduce the confusion I created a couple of visual aids. Granted this stuff is much easier said than done in a fight, but I'll toss these up here in case it helps.





- Forbs
"For Gnomeregan!"
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#7896612 May 28, 2013 at 04:22 PM · Edited 9 years ago
Lieutenant
1523 Posts
#7885553 Brixee wrote:

I poked around on YouTube and found this very simple vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIyCkDkjwKc

So simple it doesn't even have sound. BUT...it clarifies how this works.

Don't feel bad about it 'Dyna. We both made our fair share of mistooks. One thing I think we can both agree on is how awkward it is to see the other tank. I think moving our positions somewhat will ease that. Instead of straight across the room, perhaps on a diagonal? I had my camera zoomed all the way out, and at a 30 degree angle. Also, instead of mousing over the mobs, I had a column on the right side of my screen (either from Bliz's UI or one of my add-ons), so I could just click on the necessary one there and taunt it.

~ Brix



*hugs Bixee* Thank you!

Looking through the posts, it seems Forbs is going with one strategy and I'm thinking of the strategy in the video you linked. I rather stick to the simpler strategy of keeping the petrifying dog with me all the time and only switching when the dog on Jink gets petrification.

As an aside I'll be going back to the default UI. Looking at other videos of this fight, it's pretty apparent the Spartan UI I'm using is blocking the display of some very important info.
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